A Mrs. G. Social Inquiry: Shitty Comments
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 at 3:16PM Mrs. G. 
"Bollards," a Dublin Street Corner, June/July 1969, no copright
Today, there is a post on internet trolls by an apparently well know blogger that is causing all kinds of hubbub and fisticuffs because of the clear disagreement, lack of middle ground between readers on how disagreeable commenters should, paraphrasing the blogger's chorus, have no say.
Mrs. G. isn't trying to add fuel to this fire, but the subject of shitty comments has been on her mind for a while. By and large, she thinks she gets off pretty light in the shitty comment department. They show up here and there, sometimes they are hurtful but (with the exception of the whole nutjobs calling her house situation a couple of years ago) she is pretty good at shaking it off.
Lately, for a number of reasons, Mrs. G. has been considering eliminating the opportunity for readers to post anonymously, enabling comment moderation or making Derfwad Manor a private blog, but she keeps coming back to a core belief: She chooses to share her life and its stories on a public forum and it only seems reasonable that she deal with the mostly good and occasional bad. Preventing anonymous comments would deny many readers the chance to reach out and share honestly, and since Mrs. G. considers this a community blog, why stifle the community? She doesn't want to moderate comments because she knows she would approve 99% of comments, so why bother? Making the blog private is the most attractive option to her mainly because it would add an extra layer of privacy for readers (and Mrs. G's choice of topics) and that can't be a bad thing. Still, this blog has a fair amount of readers (new ones show up regularly) and Mrs. G. doesn't want to inadvertantly evolve into an exclusive club which arbitrarily picks and chooses who's in and who's out.
Lovers gonna love. Haters gonna hate. Life's gonna go on.
So, unless a commenter insults a member of Mrs. G's family or another reader, Mrs. G. has decided to let the shitty comments stand.
But the public/private option still lingers.
Thoughts?
Social Inquiry
Reader Comments (48)
I moderate(d - when I blogged) only to delete (easily) the "buy my internets porns" spam. Haters are part of your community too - and it takes more passion - typically - to disagree than agree. I'm with you on keeping DM's freak-flag-flying without membership filters.
I think you're much braver than me, and I marvel at your rhinoceros-like-internet-crap-tolerating thick skin. I think that as long as the occasional nutcase and troll doesn't rob you of peace, keep it open. If it starts to get to you, my point of view is that your personal peace of mind is not worth sacrificing for this community. There are too many people who depend on you in real life. Just walk away (privatizing or closing as you will), happy with the good that this place has done for so many people.
By and large, I think your instincts are correct. I never would have found your blog and been able to enjoy the Derfwad family if it had been private. And I am not sure how that would work anyway with respect to eliminating snarky comments. It would certainly mean that you would have to OWN your comments. But by and large, the commenters here comment with respect and goodwill. And those who choose snark seem to post anonymously and others in the family call them out, even before you delete the comments. I am all for the status quo, with the proviso that you get to delete them if they insult you, or your family. And block them if they continue.
Tough one. It's probably not feasible, but the one thing I thought of is on some sites (I've mostly seen it on news ones?) there are buttons that let you say "this post doesn't add to the discussion." After enough dings, a post still exists but isn't displayed unless someone clicks to expand it. I think that produces a sort-of community moderated comment thread, which is nice. But unless there's a box in your blog design that you can click to turn that feature on, it's probably a non-starter.
I don't think making the blog private is a good idea, because I think people who haven't heard of you before deserve a chance! If someone who isn't you could delete the haters for you (so you never ever see them!) that would be cool...
I read that YOU HAVE NO SAY post and laughed. The author reminded me of bratty little Nelly from "A Little House on the Prairie," always wanting to be the center of attention---acting as if it was owed her---and throwing hissy fits when things didn't go her way. I mean, really? Really? This blogger puts herself and her family out there on the Big Bad Internet in a Big Bad Way, and then has the nerve to get all high and mighty because she doesn't like some of the opinions expressed in response? Please.
Yes, haters suck. But they are a part of the Internet. So if you don't want people to have their say, then simply delete the offending comments. Or quietly close comments. Or close shop. Or, better yet, don't open shop in the first place.
sure the shitty comments are mean and hurtful, but....what i love about them is that they help make us Derfs stronger. the rallying around you or other commenters by many is, to tell the truth, refreshing. you piss one of us off, you piss us ALL off. (and i do like that the ones that tend to get really bad, you block...but you let us read what was said....that's always good for an eyerolling giggle and snort!)
i also like the way you warn readers about a particularly touchy subject before they enter....if you also say that "mean and shitty, hurtful comments will be immediately blocked and your presence no longer welcome"...well, that would be good too.
but, keep that 'private' option open though....never say never.
(and you should think about a Derfwad Manor freak flag....i kind of like that idea!!!)
Personally, I would moderate. That way you can throw out the comments that don't contribute to (or detract from) the discussion at hand. That doesn't mean people all have to agree with you; they just have to disagree politely. I vote against making it "private" - there's no real guarantee of privacy, even with an invite-only blog, and it would definitely prevent you from gaining new readers who would really enjoy your blog, due to the PITA factor of having to ask permission to "join." Maybe just get rid of anonymous comments? But people can make up any old identity anyway, so I don't know whether that is worth it.
I have to say that I find the offensive comments, well offensive... But you are probably right, if you put it out there, someone's going to have something negative, ugly, irrelevant, or just plain hateful to say. I agree that making an exclusive club probably isn't the best way to go. If you'd done that in the past, I'd never have found you. But you're the only one who can determine whether or not the haters are too much. Personal attacks should not be tolerated in any forum.
One thing I have been pondering is how I feel about "the face project" being open to the public. I realize that I could opt out, but I DO want to be known - just, if I had a choice, I guess it would be to be known and visible to the "regulars" here. Just a personal foible. Continue on!
As far as the blog itself, the idea of it being closed feels cozy, but I would hate for friends not yet met to be excluded from the Derfdom.
The haters aren't too much for me as long as they stay online. I'm more curious about the private/public deal.
Susan, the "Face Project" is only my face, no one else's. No worries. Several people have emailed expressing similar thoughts.
Ohhhhhhhh. Gotcha.
Yes, haters are going to hate. Yes, there are going to people people who disagree with you. With what you say, what you do, what you write, with the very fact that you have the temerity to breathe THEIR air on what they believe is THEIR planet that they are Lord God Emperor of. This is the reality of the internet - it's the reality of life.
But given that, you are under no obligation whatsoever to host their comments. The first amendment says "Congress shall make no law...bridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;...". Please note that it says NOTHING about non-governmental entities whatsoever. And even though I think you'd do a better job than 99% of those morons from both parties, last I heard you weren't part of Congress, Mrs. G.
So yes, you're 110% within your rights to moderate and delete comments or not as you wish. If they want to go start a blog somewhere to post their vitriol, well, they can do that. But whether or not they get space here on your blog? That's up to you, and only up to you.
As for anonymity, Facebook was supposed to be the case to prove that if people can't post anonymously, they will be accountable and say only sweet and kind things. That's not what happened - pick your favorite Facebook bullying case and start from there. It's not the name someone uses - it's the person behind that name and whether they are a person of character or not.
I've got a lot more to say on handles and the fact that people are a lot less anonymous than they think they are, but that's getting off topic. The tl;dr version: your blog, your rules, anyone who doesn't like that, there's the door.
You know it's really your call. Most of us would accept however you choose to structure your own blog, and it's comments policy.
I don't pay any attention to the haters/spammers. They're out here in the real world too and the best way to deal with them out here is ignore them. They want the attention....and I ain't giving it to them.
A woman, total stranger, once tried to give me her bigoted opinion during a conversation that had nothing to do with her.
I very politely asked her, "Excuse me...do I know you?"
Silence.
It's your party so you get to decide who to invite, and who to have security bounce.
BUT if you do go private could you take a moment to send me the secret password, codeword, magical key so I'm not left on the pavement crying...let me in!
I like it just the way it is for all the reasons you listed. Offensive comments can always be deleted later. I don't understand why some people get such a charge out of tearing other people down, but maladjusted people do exist.
I don't know anything about that other blogger and only skimmed her post, but I LOVE the photo and caption she put with the post. Love that song. I don't know why, but I do.
Jenni, I don't know or read her either...someone sent me a link and said I might find it interesting considering I've had a few shitty comments this week.
I hope you won't go private, because I never would have found you all those years ago if you hadn't been a public blog. Also, I agree that the attacks are usually few and far in between (or maybe it just seems that way to me because I'm not the one being attacked), and I'm with Deb in that the offenders usually serve to bring the community stronger together.
I don't like getting hurty or shitful comments either, but as long as they're relevant to the discussion, I allow them to stay. I also allow anonymous comments, but I always moderate any new commenter, due to a situation I had a few years ago.
I'm so glad you wrote this post -- I've been hoping you would.
For me, I like when you (Mrs. G.) respond directly on the shit slinger's post with your well worded awe inspiring snark -- and the rest of us just completely ignore the bullish behavior. Since it's attention trolls are seeking, I enjoy ignoring them. But I also think you have to defend yourself -- and you're mighty awesome in the shock and awe department Mrs. G.
I'm impressed with the caliber of discussion on this site, and would be saddened if it became exclusive simply because we would all lose the broader perspective.
I don't have a blog, but from a reader's perspective, I actually like seeing comments that disagree in a respectful manner. Respectful, not troll-like and full of sheeeeit. I admit I might feel different if I were the target of shitty comments, but I've seen some blogs where the comments are moderated and all of the sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns give me hives.
I agree with the majority. I've seen what happens when things go closed and members only. They morph into something narrow and intolerant of even the slightest bit of dissension and totally averse to outsiders. You are brave Mrs G. You rattle the bars of a lot of cages and hate mail is a given. But the good kind is also a given. I don't know if you can have one without the other, if that makes sense. I've also seen some of you readers verbally take them on, so some do have you back should you need it.
I say, don't moderate, but also, don't allow anonymous comments. If people have something to say that they can't say under their own names, then maybe they should think twice about saying it, or they should reword it in such a way as to be respectful. The fact that you are brave enough to put yourself out there doesn't mean that you're holding yourself up as a punching bag for the unexpressed rage of some small-minded malcontent.
I agree with Barb Cooper about not allowing trolls to post anonymously. If you're going to talk shit about or to someone, have the guts to put your name behind your words. I suppose that someone could just make up a name or an email address if it's required, but maybe if they have to go through those two extra steps they'll just say 'screw it' and troll on.
I like the conversations we have here because even when we disagree, for the most part, it stays civil and respectful.
I like that you delete super hurtful comments and ban those people. i would also say, maybe some kind of private forum instead of a private blog? You could approve who gets to join and only members can post and see posts. That way we can be a little more "out there" and so can you.
I pretty much agree with your logic and conclusions above.
I will say that I find it disturbing when I see the really nasty comments. But I appreciate the tenor of everybody else rejecting that behavior, it actually does makes this feel like more of a community.
I also know I don't have the bravery to put myself out there the way you have. My hat is off to you, as always. I would just agree that if anyone crosses the line and makes you unhappy, or comes at your family, then gloves off.
I haven't had a chance to read the linked post, but here's my two cents. I don't like using moderation mainly because it's just too much work for me, but also, as a reader and commenter, I like to get my comment up in real time. There's nothing weirder than a time lapse in a conversation. I vote for keeping it open!
I don't know how your blog service works, but in Blogger (which is really google now) you can opt to have an open comment policy but any comments on a post older than so many days are subject to moderation - that way I can delete spam, and also be alerted to legit comments from people who stumble across my blog. I like that.
The trolls are who they are. Bless their pointy little heads and shriveled little hearts. They cain't he'p themselves, poor dears.
I think you and I feel the exact same way about it.
Aunt Snow, you nailed it with their pointy little heads and shriveled little hearts. Bless their hearts, in the most southern way possible.
If you can take the heat, Mrs. G., I vote for an open door. The great benefit of a community is the ability of all its members to rally round the threatened one. You give us a chance to jump on our trusty steeds and come to your rescue! I used to be of the "don't feed the troll" mentality, but now I'm more of a "scorch that sucker 'til it shuts up" mind. I guess as I get older, I have less tolerance for bullshit.
As to the anonymous question, I hope you will allow those of us who use pseudonyms to continue. There are all kinds of reasons we choose not to use our names, but want to belong. I use my cardinal nym, or its variant SBcardinal when I post on blogs, so I am consistent, just not fully out. I deeply admire all you derfs who blog under your real name, and hope to join you someday.
Queen G.....if you are up for it, I say leave it open, with the option to block the idiots/mean spirited/nasty trolls when necessary. You have always been more than fair in allowing differing opionions....my only worry (because I tend to be a worrier) is that folks can go too far. BUT, that said....you know as well as anyone...when you are out there, you are out there. You have been the bravest of the brave in blogger land....and you don't hid under a bush! (oh....c'mon....I know there is someone that will tell me I said THAT wrong!....is it bushell? sp? my Baptist upbringing and all....)
So, I say - leave it open, but it is YOUR blog - and we are just lucky enough to be along for the ride. If someone steps where they shouldn't....ban their asses (and for our enjoyment....give 'em a good lashing!). But please...don't make it private. You need to reach the masses....for you are too glorious a read and a person to have it any other way. Us Derfs? we've got your back.....
And another thing........this community that Queen G built....I just went back and listened to the music and "slide show" (smile) of Thanksgiving 2011......it is what gets me through the day sometimes. Don't let the haters change anything....just be in CHARGE of them!
I agree with most of what people have said here. That said, I appreciate the option to once in a while post anonymously, mainly because I want to say something pretty private about myself here (usually in empathic response to something private someone else has shared or asked about) and I don't want that information about myself easily traced back to me. If I didn't have the option to post anonymously, I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing those more private items.
Whatever works for you Mrs G, whatever works for you.
My mother always taught me that you don't have to like everybody, but I expect you to be courteous and act humanely. If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything. I find this much more appealing than being rude and unkind. Sometimes there are things that I don't agree with, but "I" know that I don't and I certainly don't have to be mean about it. It's my choice to live that way. And if you want to say something mean and put yourself out there then have the gonads to use your name and stop the anonymous bull crap. I think the trolls in this place will be bombarded by your regular readers, whom for the most part support and love you, Mrs G. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's how it's voiced that will ultimately see them judged. xo
I left blogging years ago because [in part] I got so tired of dealing with the trolls. Having returned to the medium last year I'm finding that the comment section of my blog is easy to maintain because I require everyone who comments to be on record with me. After that individuals can say what they want. To a point.
By requiring some authenticity from my commenters I'm finding that the trolls don't show up for long. Too much light is shining on them-- which makes them scared & they scurry back into their dark caves of hate.
Plus I abide by the old-time blogging mantra: My blog. My rules.
Whatever you choose- public or private- is okay with me. I rarely comment but always read what you write.
I find the trollish comments amusing in that they say far more about their originators than their target.
I'm currently trying to teach my son that people who say stupid things with no basis in reality aren't worth the time of day. He's going into Middle School next year. Trollish comments are proof that some people haven't grown up since then.
Delete or moderate them, but please keep this space open. Don't let the asshats defeat your more generous nature.
Much love...
I say public blog, not private. Just delete whatever you feel like - no need to justify yourself. The trolls can say what they want but then you get to delete it.
I'm almost sure I posted this before, but what about a mix of public and the occasional private postings? You could just slap a password on certain posts. I have a friend who blogs and does this - maybe 1 out of 10 or 20 entries are marked personal and have a password. It would be tragic IMO to make everything completely private, plus I think you'd have even more work approving applications, kicking people off, etc.
I've been blogging over ten years and, yes, haters are gonna hate. Every time that someone gets worked up about hateful comments, I just roll my eyes. (Not at you!)
I haven't read previous comments and I'm not reading follow-up comments, so I don't know if this has been covered, but... the more difficult you try to make it for them? The more fun that it is for them to try and trump you. Let them hate. And, readers, you're all best off ignoring the bad people and their bad comments. They just want attention. Why give it to them?!?!
Sorry for this follow-up, but... I just remembered that someone once made a comic about me because I was notorious for directing my readers towards offensive folk back in the day... before I learned to just let it be. (http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/King_Rat/257620)
Word: I do believe that going private kills blogs. It might save a community... MAYBE, but it's a blog-killer, Mrs. G. And, who's to say that you won't have a snitch in your midst? I don't understand what going private accomplishes... It keeps things private at first, and it only takes one person to futz up all that work. KWIM?
(I'm clearly reading comments when I said that I wouldn't and I'm being highly opinionated as well. I'm aware of my hypocrisy and I am very opinionated regarding this topic. Feel free to hate on me. I can take it.)
I say leave it as is. If you get to the point where you can't take seeing the personal attacks any more, you could always take the variety of ramping-up measures (no anon commenting, registered users etc) but that's minimisation rather than resolution - most of them are going to find a way around it if they really want to attack you.
I believe most people post the hate because they are sad and lonely and want to feel important. A way for them to make themselves feel important is for them to know they have impact upon you - and your fellow derfs - and you can bet they come back here to see what's been said in response. I have noticed the hateful comments on this site and shaken my head but not responded because I really believe in not fanning the flames as a fellow commenter. Perhaps naively, I hope that if they're ignored, it won't be long before they go away.
short version: your blog, your rules. Not that that helps you with your dilemma in any way.
Long rambling version: My husband and I were talking about this a couple of days ago. He reads a blog that does not allow comments. The blogger feels that a reader can use their own space (twitter, facebook, google+, their own blog) to respond to his blog rather than letting the reader use his space. That blogger is not interested in conversation. He like his soapbox and he's not going to give it up. Nothing wrong with that. His blog, his rules. Frankly, he doesn't have to deal with the shit.
What I find most annoying about this is the idea that if you put yourself out there publicly, even in the slightest way, you should not be surprised by the personal attacks. I think *that* is bullshit. There are ways to disagree and present opposing arguments without resorting to personal attacks. And that is what that Dear Internet Troll blog was saying. The latest troll on this blog commented on your appearance on a post about making do and stretching a dollar. It is in some ways blaming the victim. The blogger should have known when they started the blog that this could happen and now they can't be unhappy about the comment. I'm assuming that the kind of people who post personal attacks anonymously are the same kinds of people who, pre-internet, were the worst kind of gossips and rumor starters. I'm not sure it's any better that they now say these things to your face, sort of. It feels like we've hit a really mean streak in our society and I worry that it will keep good, intelligent people, people with good ideas from speaking up. Who wants to put up with all that bullshit?
This is one of the few places where I actually take the time to read the comments. I think it's awesome that you have readers from all walks of life who comment from their perspective. It has made for some interesting discussions. I can't tell you how many times I've started to read the comments and by the 4th or 5th comment, the discussion has completely devolved and has nothing to do with the topic of the original blog/article.
I say keep it public and go for comment moderation if need be. Moderation will allow you to weed out the riffraff while keeping the blog accessible to new readers and those of us who don't like to sign up (or in.)
I do have to say this ... and I know this is shocking ... I don't always agree with what you. But at the end of the day, it's YOUR blog and YOUR life, and I don't have to follow you if it rankles my "delicate" sensibilities! I think you should adopt my motto, screw em' if they don't like me.
I vote for the way things are now, but it's your blog and you don't have to put up with anything that bugs you. Or anyone. I don't get nasty trolls, but I think Aunt Snow has it right.
Bless their hearts...and delete them if you like.
Doesn't seem like it's really you to go private. Just use the delete button and ban for life wherever you choose. You don't have to explain to anyone...it's YOUR blog and you make all the decisions about what is printed in it. It's one thing to have a different opinion and/or disagree. Sometimes disagreements can even get a little heated. That's okay. It's another to be meanspirited (and off topic) just for the sake of it , and then post anonymously on top of it. Who needs that? It's just childish. I don't come here to read that although I do read and appreciate all comments that are posted at the time I'm reading that day's post. So I say: keep commenting the way it is and use the delete button freely. If you find that you're deleting too many comments, then don't allow anonymous comments. I, too, would hate for you to go private because you're a treasure to be shared!
Thank you very much for the thoughts and comments. I think, like most of you suggested, we'll keep things as they are, and if and when we get a spate of shitty comments I can't seem to naturally stomp out, I'll turn on the comment moderation. And now we have a system. Thanks again.
I don't know what a private blog is. Don't make it too hard for me!
I love your website and find it so entertaining and informational! I hate to seethat these trolls are trying to ruin something so great. It really pisses me off to see that you work so hard building something, for others to try and tear down. Stick with it, keep your chin up! Remember, you are MRS. G!