This is hard question to ask. Please be honest (sign in anonymously if you like).
Saturday, January 14, 2012 at 12:59PM Mrs. G. 
Mrs. G. recently read two books where both of the female protagonists were obese and their obesity (along with other, fairly standard relationship bullshit) was slowing unraveling their marriages. Mrs. G. didn't seek out these books. She unwittingly plucked them off the "new arrivals" library shelf. The similar subjects (though very different books) were a coincidence. Both books were difficult to read, and Mrs. G. had to put one of them down, she couldn't bear the obvious Eliza Doolittle-fication ending unfolding (more on that in a later post).
The question:
Do you feel a spouse/partner is justified in leaving his spouse/partner because she's become overweight, let herself go?
Mrs. G. uses the female pronoun because she can't recall a novel where an overweight man was just seconds from getting his ass kicked to the curb. Nah, the John Goodmans, Tony Sopranos, Zach Galifianakises' are charming, fun and desirable to many.
In one of the books she read, this passage extinguished Mrs. G's beating heart for few seconds.
He'd (husband) omitted that on some deep level he wished she'd (wife) remain fat, because part of him--a small, black, ugly little part--he knew that he made her grateful for as little or as much as was convenient to give...she'd never have the confidence to leave him. He'd always be the center of her world--the only person she'd think loved her and thus all she'd ever know of love."
...if she wanted to have sex, she'd need to have it with herself. Not his fault. He was taken care of. She'd given him permission.
The cruelty (and staggering honesty) still make her shudder.
This post isn't a passive aggressive attempt to get Mr. G's attention--Mr. and Mrs. G. have these sorts of conversations (the hard ones that require brutal honesty) not all the time, but often enough to keep the relationship cranking. Mrs. G. is trying to figure out the motivation, courage and, more so, emotions of such a woman packing up her bags and heading to the Colony, to join the twelve other women Mrs. G. has placed there with her pen and paper.
Anyway, back to the original hard question:
Do you feel a spouse/partner is justified in leaving his spouse/partner because she's become overweight, let herself go? Speak from your heart and don't go all politically correct on Mrs. G.
And then there is this:
Pop Culture, Relationships, Womankind
Reader Comments (66)
My first thought is that if all other areas of interest, compatibility and friendship have dissolved within the relationship, then I guess it would be time to go. But a dissolution based solely on body size, when all else in the relationship is as it has always been seems warped and superficial. The thinner of the parties just can't abide the other's obesity because it looks bad? Or does the thicker of the two continually take steps that thwart good health in a passive aggressive mode that brings a small feeling of control in the relationship?
I made no headway here, did I? But no, I don't think obesity is solid grounds for divorce, all on it's own. With significant other issues added in, it would be pretty much like any other potential divorce situation, wouldn't it? Prioritizing deal breakers.
No, they're not justified. You're supposed to love and be attracted to the person, not their body. Because the body changes due to lots of reasons.
If that is truly the only reason someone has for leaving their spouse, they are shallow. That except you quoted shows that the husband wants to maliciously punish his wife for not remaining the same object he married. He doesn't love her because he doesn't see her as a person. He's treating her like she's obligated to keep her body sexually desirable and available to him at all times, no excuses. And he's punishing her by becoming sexually unavailable. And he enjoys keeping her under his thumb.
I suspect that these books wouldn't have been published if not for the current anti-obesity hysteria.
Um - that excerpt? Manipulation and emotional abuse and grounds,baby.
I doubt if the husband in the book you quoted ever had actually loved his wife, heavy or not, or just loved the idea of his wife?
To answer your question, NO, my soon to be husband is a bit heavy, so am I, but we are 48 years old, and tired weary survivors of a tough old world.
On the one hand, I believe that anyone can leave their spouse for any reason or no reason at all. Marriage is a committment, not a trap. And if you don't have your reasons for standing by that committment, there is NOTHING that can make you against your will. Nothing at all.
On the other hand, anyone who marries and thinks their spouse is going to remain the same throughout their marriage - emotionally, spiritually, and yes, very much physically - is living in some kind of fantasy land. People change. Bodies change. We age, if nothing else. And if you can't handle that, you can't handle being married.
On the third hand, every time I've (inadvertently) read a passage like this, my first thought is "The author has never been through anything like this. They are projecting their imagination and their prejudices on to others." Because everyone I know who has a spouse who has changed sizes - either up or down - my own marriage included and no I'm not going to provide details - and who is still married to that spouse has basically said "I fell in love with him/her, not her body/size". (Yes, I'm generalizing. See statement on details above.)
Those who are not still married to the spouse are not married not because of body changes, per se, but because of many other reasons, most of which were not directly related. Or, in short, they would not still be married to that person anyway, body changes or no body changes.
On the fourth hand (hey, it's my rant, I can have as many hands as I want), if someone wants to leave a spouse because of weight alone, I say good riddance, honey. You can do FAR better than that kind of jerk - just don't hurt yourself kicking his ass out the door.
Oy, I have more to say but this is getting long so I'll leave it here for now (with the option of picking it up again later).
Whoa. My first reaction? Commitment is commitment and you don't throw away someone just because she has gotten fat. (I'll keep with the she here, just for you, Heather.) Heck, if that was the case, my husband wouldn't have stuck with me! (Although he did retire younger than financially smart because he was afraid that leaving me to my own inaction was going to kill me before he could become my personal trainer. But that is about action vs. reaction and slightly off-topic.)
HOWEVER... if it is all about control? ...if she has decided that being obese is a way to control him and punish him, if she has no regard for her own health or the health of their relationship?... in other words, if she is being totally selfish and using her extra weight as a weapon against him? Then perhaps the relationship should be considered DOA.
Okay, having written the previous few lines, I will point out that it is normally the spouse who is not obese who uses her weight issues as a weapon. I don't know anyone who likes being fat. (I love to eat great food, but I do not like being fat.) I don't know any obese person who hasn't struggled to lose weight.
And the parat about having a terrible self-image? Oh, yes! Jen on the Edge has been posting about that lately. Check out her blog post today (with the accompanying links, as well).
Ok, i have not read responses. Hate to say it, but yes. Of course that goes both ways. Normal aging and some weight gain would be ok, but if someone gets totally obese i feel it's unfair to the *m arriage*/ *relationship*
I can't imagine weight gain/body issues being THE reason for a divorce. I feel that if the partner leaving is telling the other person that obesity is the reason for the divorce, then the leaver may be using the weight as an excuse or cover up for their own selfishness and desires. Not sure if that makes sense, but I guess that I think that if my husband was leaving me because of my looks, or lack thereof, then he would be using that as an excuse to feel better about his choices, namely a new partner. Ick. What a uncomfortable thought. Good question, Mrs. G. I am curious about what everyone has to say about this.
It depends if the obesity is part of a larger problem. Obesity, by itself, is not a character flaw. Some people are obese due to medical/medication issues. Genetics also plays a part. If my husband had taken a long, hard look at the older women in my family he would have seen a lot of aunties and cousins in the 300 Lb range.
Picture the obese woman sitting in front of the TV shoving junk food in her face. She is sullen, depressed and can't be bothered getting dressed. She has nothing to offer in terms of conversation or companionship. If those things are important to her partner, then that relationship has a problem. If she's not willing to work on herself, does he need to stay and be unhappy?
Now picture me. My BMI borders on the overweight/obese side. My husband and I share laughs and affection. When he wants to go out I put on a cute outfit and makeup and off we go with smiles on our faces. We're both diabetic, so I try to cook healthy meals but on our 32nd anniversary we shared a really decadent piece of cake.
When he married me I weighed 70 pounds less. He says the extra weight isn't a problem, because otherwise our relationship hasn't changed.
May i ask books? I would love to check out.
If my husband left me because of how I look or don't look, if that caused him to fall out of love with me, then I think that the honest thing to do is end the relationship.
Sure, we all want to believe in this for-better-or-for-worse stuff, but the truth of the matter is that people fall out in love and out of love for a variety of reasons. I'd much rather that a person be up front about that, even if it is for something so shallow, than to feign feelings and live in an empty relationship.
I do believe in trying to make a marriage work, yet I don't think that one MUST make it work.
No, No and No. What's interesting though is that major weight gain is hardly ever unaccompanied by other issues, such as depression, medical conditions and the like. I'm not talking the middle age pudge of 20-30 lbs, I'm talking serious obesity. Thus, to leave a spouse over "pudge" seems petty and to leave a spouse over obesity seems to fly in the face of "in sickness and in health". That having been said, I can see instances in which a severely obese person who is unwilling to do anything to remedy the situation unfairly burdens the other spouse with additional responsibilities and duties. In that case, I'd say it's not the weight but the selfishness that becomes the motive for leaving.
I think that there would have to be more urgent underlying emotional issues to justify ending a marriage.
I'm with the crowd - weight alone is not sufficient, and likely to be a scapegoat. Or it could be a real cause of lost mutual interests, if the gainer no longer wants to go out and do things the couple previously did together. But there's so much more to a relationship, it's hard to imagine someone really giving up if everything else is great. (And if they did, good riddance as was previously commented.)
And to help inform this discussion, there's a recent article in the NY Times Magazine detailing some of the current scientific understanding of weight and weight loss: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=general&src=me
Also, here is a series of interviews with a scientist who researches neuroendocrine control of food intake, body weight, and metabolism. The interviews are very readable and not too long - some great info about the current "state of the science" on this topic (first question they asked her - do any diets actually work?):
Part 1:
http://teenskepchick.org/2011/12/08/teen-skepchick-interviews-diana-williams/
Part 2:
http://teenskepchick.org/2011/12/15/teen-skepchick-interviews-diana-williams-part-2/
Answers to follow up questions from 1&2:
http://teenskepchick.org/2012/01/12/teen-skepchick-interviews-diana-williams-follow-up-questions/
I am overweight and my husband and some of his and my family act like he is so sensitive and heroic to stay with me. They don't notice his physical flaws that have developed over last 12 years. The joke is on them. I have been stashing money and a received a recent small inheritance and plan to leave my husband when our son graduates from high school in June. I have a detailed, funded plan. I can't imagine what a shock it will be for me to have the gall to leave him! Women, there are plenty of men who don't have issues with overweight women. Don't stay with an asshole just because you believe no one else will have you. You deserve more. And not to give TMI but my heroic husband has been withholding sex for years, years! Only a few more months!
I had a relationship end in part because I would not focus on losing weight. She said it was because I wasn't taking care of my health, which was true. It was not the only issue that came between us, but it was there. On my own part, it made me angry; I used it as an excuse to eat and drink whatever I damned well pleased.
Looks are important like it or not. I think it is unfair for a partner/spouse to let things go. I think it's unkind to quit trying to attract and seduce the love of your life. I would consider leaving if my spouse didn't put in some serious time in a gym.
I think divorce is fair option. Sexual attraction is an important part of a relationship.I would hope therapy was emplyed before calling it quits. Expecially if children are involved.
My husband is obese, I'm fit. It's true that sexual attraction is a thing of the past on my part, but I do my part, and I would never let his weight come between us and everything else good we have and have had. And will have! I try to encourage him to concern himself with his weight without bringing him down, which is nearly impossible. But I signed up for the long haul, and I'd expect him to do the same for me. It's not like I've got no faults of my own either!
Absolutely not. I married my husband when he was a very wealthy attorney and I was 17 years his junior, a size 5 and also an attorney. His brother destroyed the firm in a pique of anger, jealousy and greed. I stayed with my husband and we have a beautiful daughter who is a home educated student ready to graduate in a year. She is being courted by many Ivies for her achievements. He has not lifted a finger to help educate her, take her for required testing, selecting curricula or extra curricular activites nor did I ask him to. He is overweight as well. I have developed rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia and am on steroid therapy . My weight has doubled and I am crippled . I do not complain or feel sorry myself except that I married a greedy, lazy, self serving bastard who tells me every day how lucky I am that I at least have a husband because I would never be able to find one now. I am told daily that I am useless to him and further, that he wishes for me to not speak to him unless it pertains to our daughter. So no, I do not think weight gain regardless of the reason, is grounds for emotional abuse much less divorce. I did not leave his sorry ass when his brother dumped him but plan to as soon as financially able to do so unless karma takes him to a timely grave. We are all given certain gifts, my daughter was mine and I am honored and grateful to be her mother and best friend as we share similar interests. I thought having two suicides in my family of origin was bad luck. Marrying this piece of work has been worse. He is vain, cruel and blind to the fact that his age makes him look like a basset hound. I never contemplated leaving him for going from a millionaire to lacking money for groceries for a while. I guess one of us meant it when we said our vows and the other is incapable of even understanding the words. If I perchance see a book promoting the idea that it is understandable or acceptable to leave a spouse over weight gain I will burn it on my barbeque grill . You are an inspiration to me and havemade me laugh until tears ran down my face. My husband did not like your video with the diet books. I think you hit a nerve....thank you.
I am so grateful you brought this difficult but increasingly common subject up and I am awed by the honesty being shared. My husband has been rude, cruel and mocking about my weight gain ( four kids, got heaver with each baby). I have been working out a lot this year and I'm lost 44 pounds in nearly five months. Now, this man who hasn't touched me for years with any love or tenderness is suddenly all lovey dovey. Guess what? I'M NOT INTERESTED IN FUCKING SUCH A SALLOW SOD! When I get down to my goal weight, I'm going get a job, take half of what we own and never look back. I'm the same me as before. Just thinner.
Tough question, I think a lot of things that come into play.
The feminist in me wants to say fuck them, the lot of them who act so shallow and superficial as to leave their wives because their body changed. But the calmer side of me asks, who am I to say what a partner should consider before moving on? We are all unique individuals with our very own set of values and priorities, and I don't get to dictate what another human should think of as important, just like I wouldn't want anyone demanding I adopt their values instead of my own.
I had a friend who had many an extra pounds on her but it never permeated her self-confidence, and boy, did men pick up on that! She is now happily married, but before settling down she never found herself at a loss of men, including husbands (two previous ones, and she left both of them-- not the other way around), boyfriends and lovers, including a fling with a well-known basketball player. I think men are hard-wired to sniff confidence up like hounds regardless of body shape, because in a very primitive way the message is that a happy woman is more likely to be a healthy woman, and therefore best suited to be a partner.
That being said, I would wonder what the weight gain implied for the relationship. I can see it being taxing when the wife is uninterested in intimacy, no longer motivated to do anything, and has lost all will or spark. How long would we endure happily with a partner like that? I understand the politically correct thing for a man would be to stick it out and help her out of the rut, but we have to be realistic and see that not everyone is ready to be helped. Should men be obliged to stay in a now sparkless, unhappy marriage simply because that's the nice thing to do for the wife? No, I don't think they should.
In conclusion, I think that even if we don't condone why a man would leave their wife for being obese, the reality is that it's justifiable to end a relationship whenever either one of the involved wants to end the relationship. It's important to remember that other peoples' reasons and choices are valid simply because they're theirs, and we don't have to understand or agree with them. In the end, this is what we, too, want for ourselves: to be free to choose what we desire without necessarily having to justify ourselves to the world.
I'm with some of the others who say that there must be other issues at play---more than just obesity. My husband is overweight and he's self confident, interesting, kind, funny & sexy. Weight is a health issue, not a relationship issue for me.
No. NO NO NO NO NO. However, that said, I doubt sincerely that this one thing, being fat, is the only reason someone would leave someone else. There has to be more to it than that, or the relationship is beyond shallow.
I am slim and my partner is obese. His weight is only an issue to me in that I feel like he may be a heart attack waiting to happen. I still find him attractive, very attractive, and yet he is not physically who I ever saw myself with, until I met him. He is warm and caring and loving. The weight is about the 10th thing on my list of what is so good about him.
And, I gotta say, he keeps me warm!
I grew up in a house where my mother had serious eating issues and obesity problems. I fully understand that obesity is usually a symptom of myriad emotional problems.
Weight paired with confidence and mental balance never seems to be a relationship problem. Weight paired with depression and manipulation is always going to be a wedge.
I would say the power struggles quoted may not be exact, but are not that far off. I know my mother stayed heavy as a way to "filter" men, to find out if they would take her with, literally, her baggage. She used this as a means of establishing ground rules, that no one had any input on her behavior, and conversly, she would have no input on their behavior. Disaster inevitably ensues. She also gave up the chance for a healthy and active life with her kids. I grew up watching her stuff herself, gorge on candy, hide boxes of food in her room. I can't imagine this would be a healthy relationship any more that coming to bed slurry drunk.
Complicated stuff!
Obesity, in and of itself, is no reason to dissolve a relationship. It can be a contributing factor, and unfortunately I think those two quotes were brutally spot on describing thoughts and feelings nobody wants to admit to having. I think we all have a deep ugly kernel inside ourselves that we use to justify meanness. It's just a matter of how well we control it and whether we let it see daylight at all. I like to think that the majority of humanity is kind and generous, but I think I would be naive if I thought everybody were virtuous to that degree. All feelings are valid, even the ones that make us cringe when we give them more than passing consideration.
the simple reaction is to say, hell no ,that is a shallow reason to leave a spouse, but seriously, it isn't always that simple. yes, there are cases where a controlling man manipulates a woman. i.e he marries her when she is thin, then begins to shame her or leaves her when she gains weight, whether that means obesity or even a few pounds. and if SHE buys into this control, well, she is doomed right there.
That's an obvious case.
Otherwise, I think it is very complicated. First of all, obesity is complicated. Second of all, relationships are complicated, especially dysfunctional relationships, where, likely the needs of both people are not getting met. There are layers and layers of emotional and psychological weapons deployed and defenses constructed. I am myself a zaftig woman, OK? So I know the territory a bit when it comes to the ways SOME men respond to and try to manipulate SOME overweight women. I think the example you point out about the man with the obese wife is true in some cases. I have seen it. In the instance I am thinking about though, the woman was also using her obesity as a buffer, and even a way of getting back. , though I'm not sure how aware she was of it. She was not ready to accept honest feedback from friends at that point either . Everything fed into her sense of being a victim. ,and she wore that like a badge of honor. oh hell, in a marriage the issues can go back decades and it is tough to comb them apart.
to some extent there is another issue. for example ,if you had a partner who was drinking or smoking themselves to death what would you do? What if you had been encouraging , done everything you could think of to get them to stop? What if you finally understood that nothing YOU did could change that person. At that point you have to decide , unconditional love? or is it too much to stand by and watch someone you did love and do love killing themselves. Or what if you are the enabler? what strokes do you and your partner get from that enabling and that addiction? To some extent, for many obese people, there IS a food addiction issue . Don't tell me about the struggle to lose weight , I KNOW the struggle. think about the goal of health. you can say the gift of health, to the extent you can work toward it, is a gift to your spouse, but truly it is a gift to yourself. it is your life.
To get healthy, you must be able to get healthy for yourself, not to please another. So you have to heal yourself first. otherwise nothing gets healed. What the husband above is voicing is similar to what a spouse of an alcoholic voices when they really don't want the alcoholic to recover , the alcoholic or addict is easier to manipulate as is. So if the woman wants to change her life, she has to realize the relationship is not a healthy functioning relationship . Whether the husband stays or leaves is not the main point. They either need to get pretty fierce about communicating what is going on between them so they can heal together, find away to heal themselves to heal the relationship, which takes motivation in both of them , ...or accept the situation as is.
If she is packing her bags, i see this as a healthy sign that she is not resigned to the situation, that she is NOT satisfied with the crumbs of pity , scorn or disappointment that her husband signals to her. Even if she is leaving full of hurt or anger, and not exactly sure why, I like the fact that she is taking action. Something in her knows she deserves better, in terms of respect and in terms of love. She may be smarting because he isn't giving her the love she wants or needs, when really this may start her on the journey of discovering her own self worth . I hope that she finds her way through to a place where she can heal, find herself, remember herself and love herself.
of course, not knowing your character, maybe she's already there in terms of self worth , and she's not as dependent as hubby might think! in that case I see her leaving with a definite flourish.
Four words: For better or worse
Manipulative crapola Marriage is a commitment for better or for worse ,sickness and in health ..... We are expected to love and meet our husbands needs regardless .Men get fat,go bald, become impotent, they fart wherever, their feet stink and they are apparently physically incapable of putting laundry in the hamper but we stand by them. We gain a few pounds from depression or menopause and we're tipped into the rubbish heap. Women who choose partners for their wealth are viewed as gold diggers or worse yet it's socially acceptable for a man to be shallow. I'm so sick of the double standards. Next time a man tells me I'm no longer desirable because I've gained a few pounds I think I'll give him a reality check
I think we are dealing with two seperate issues here. The husband in question is a SOB who definitely has issues that started long before the wife developed a weight problem. This is not a marriage based on love, IF there ever was any, it is gone and what remains is not in my opinion worth clinging to because there is absolutely NO respect for the wife in his thoughts or actions, let alone love. Love is an easy 4 letter word to say, I say SHOW me love.
As for the other point of view, if you have a partner who loves you and cherishes you to the moon and back and you are on a self destructive course of eating binges, etc that are uncontrollable AND all avenues have been exhausted for treatment? Maybe it is time to leave IF this person's unhappiness is compromising and holding your own happiness hostage. That applies for men OR women I think. Yes, there are the vows we took when we pledged ourselves to these people. People change and you can't always see them through when they are intent on self destruction. Do I think it should be based on how a person looks? Hell NO, but I do think if the drama, hysterics, mood swings and depression are triggered by their own behavior there should be a point you call Uncle; as most would for a drug or alcohol addiction that continuously refuses treatment.
ALL that being said...I am PLUS sized and my husband has never said anything to me about it. But he will point out women he thinks are too skinny (and he means it!) so I love him for THAT as well as many other things. When he married me I was a size 10 and I am a ways from that today, but his hair is grayer, waistline expanded and bit more curmudgeonly so...I guess we will carry on!
No. I don't think weight should figure into a decision to stay or go in any relationship. Period. Either you love someone, flaws and all, or you don't.
As a sole reason? No.
As a symptom of other things? Refusal to take care of one's self in an overall context, where those conversations actually happen and expressions of concern about that self-care actually happen, expressly, on more than one single occasion? Where the partners' interests no longer converge? Where they no longer want the same things, or can't find it in them to try, for whatever reason, to meet their spouse any where toward halfway, and weight is one of the things, be it for health, sexual compatibility, or other reasons (say, oh, IDK, they'd gotten together partly out of a shared interest in hiking and could no longer do that together?)
Communication's still key. And it'd have to be one of many things. Not just the kicker.
If a spouse's obesity is the sole reason their partner wants to leave, they should have never married in the first place. That being said, obesity is rarely just a simple case of sitting around on your ass and eating. Obesity, in my opinion, is an outward sign of some serious emotional issues.
My husband and I have both put on a significant amount of weight since we first married. We're now trying to turn ourselves around and live a healthier life, but I don't think either one of us ever thought about leaving because the other is overweight. At least I haven't. I've easily got a million other reasons to walk out, but I won't. At least not yet. As someone said above, our weight issues are health issues, not relationship issues.
Here's me, not being politically correct: were the novels you were reading written by a man/men, or by a woman/women?
Because that's not fucking cool. You're right, big men are often desirable in novels and films. But big women? Not so much. The first film I saw in this new year, "Young Adult," was painful and complicated in so many ways; and sex/attraction was part of it, between "attractive" people and "unattractive" people, fat and fit, abled and disabled. And the writer was female. I have found that female writers are often more sensitive to what goes on in our heads about sex, male writers more intent on simply the flesh.
And. I think that some men fall in love with a woman, and love them no matter how their flesh changes. Those are the men that women love. A man who no longer bestowed his love on a wife who had gained weight? why would a woman love a man like that?
Mrs. G, may I recommend an inoculation of IBTP? This really made my heart sink. As someone who is not thin by nature, I have dealt with the crazy messages society gives based on weight, especially the loss of it, and I think @Tab nails it for me. If you think I am a better person because I am thinner, well FUCK YOU. I am the same person no matter what my weight, and losing weight is not the simple equation most people believe. We have been sold a bill of goods, and there are a zillion companies who would like to take your money to help you lose weight. Don't even get me started on the beauty industry. As to weight, Kate Harding, who blogs at Salon, no longer blogs at Shapely Prose, but you can read the archives and wake up. http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/
Um, that was a bit ranty, wasn't it? Guess you touched a nerve!
err...um....I've had a tough week and a couple of glasses of wine, so my comment probably should be followed up tomorrow in the sober light of day, but......
My spouse is overweight. And when I think about what makes me stay or keeps me from going, it's his heart and his personality and his....being, not his body. I wish with all my heart that my husband could lose some weight. But not because I want him to look better - because I want him to maintain his health.
And although I am not as slim as I once was, I am only twenty pounds heavier than when I was about 30 years old. But often, I feel that he has the advantage over me in being an easy person to live with.
Thank you for all these honest, interesting answers. Like many of you, I'm in it for the long haul as long as I am respected and loved. I agree with many that this subject is complex and I can't help but think it has much to do with money and power. I've got a lot to work with here.
"Mrs. G. is trying to figure out the motivation, courage and, more so, emotions of such a woman packing up her bags and heading to the Colony, to join the twelve other women Mrs. G. has placed there with her pen and paper."
Is this the the writing project you have alluded to? A WC book?!! I hope so. I'm still going even if I just have to shove myself in the pages!
Love,
Tina
I brought this question up with my husband, and to summarize a long and rambling discussion: he agrees that while this might be the surface reason given for the divorce, it's rarely if ever the whole story. He's also an author, and pointed out that if this is the only motivation given to the male character for the divorce, he's going to come across extremely one-dimensional and shallow, and raises the question of what he saw in her in the first place. He said with that alone he wouldn't buy that the relationship was wonderful once, and it also sheds non-flattering light on the female character, like why did/does she see in such an utterly shallow bastard? We also got into gender roles and the fantasy spun by the media vs. the reality of most of our lives, but that's digression.
And yes, what cardinal said above. I was going to refer to Kate Harding's essay "The Fantasy of Being Thin", which so many books like the ones you quoted above feed and serve up as utter truth instead of utter bull.
An "old" boss of mine said (very matter of factly) that he and his wife had made a pact when they married, that neither could gain more than 10 lbs...that it would mean the "end" of their relationship. I was stunned...as they had been married for over 50 years...and I'm pretty much sure that they were both more than 10 lbs heavier. He admitted that was true...but said he would not tolerate that kind of laziness. You could have smacked me upside the head with a 2 x 4...and not gotten any more of a reaction other than my mouth OPEN.
That said...I have always been a slim person, until I hit 40'ish....and it was a 5 lb gain each year, followed by surgery, more pounds, etc. I've never felt "right" in myself since ...always astonished at how heavy I had become. My husband has never EVER been anything other than loving and kind. He's encouraged me to try to lose weight, but he has never been mean, and has used humor, patience, and kindess to try to cheer me on. I'm 50 lbs heavier than when he married me....and while I'm tall...hey...it still is 50 lbs. He loves me and I love him. A marriage to me isn't about all "that" - it is about how you help each other, encourage each other, nurture each other, support each other. There isn't anything in my brain that says it is ok to let someone "go" (or dismiss them, divorce them, call it what you want) because of weight.
No, no and no is my answer...but maybe I can say that because that is my world. There are still assholes out there that will either pin it on someone else (because THEY have issues) or can't see past the wonderful creature in front of them who doesn't "fit" a picture that is in their head.
If my husband chose to do that to me....I'd say "thank God" I don't have to be married to an asshole...because frankly, that is what I'd think he is (and he most certainly isn't...and I thank God for THAT). It's good to be love for "who" I am, not "what" I happen to look like.
Having been both (relatively) thin, very overweight and somewhat overweight (currently) throughout my25-year marriage I know that I have been the same person in all those bodily forms. If my weight got to the point it started to limit my life substantially I would understand my husband being unhappy--maybe even wanting a divorce, but in the absence of that, I certainly don't think weight alone should be the demise of a marriage.
I'm intrigued by the Women's Colony comment as well . . .
"If my husband chose to do that to me....I'd say "thank God" I don't have to be married to an asshole...because frankly, that is what I'd think he is (and he most certainly isn't...and I thank God for THAT). It's good to be love for "who" I am, not "what" I happen to look like."
Diane, Amen. I think the same also holds true for shallow women. I'd rather be fat and alone rather than fat and ignored or humiliated. Life is short and we are all entitled to feel worthy--we are God's children. My husband likes extra junk in my trunk and trust me, there are many more out there like him! Aren't the main ingredient of marriage love,kindness and respect. Also, you don't have to be thin to please a man. Ask my hubs.
Taking deep, deep breath, here. Trying not to rant.
Have a child nearly dying from the pressure to be thin. Have sat in the parent education seminars and had the whole stinking, filthy mess of mass media and its endless need to make us feel worthless laid out before me by experts.
Had a lifetime of being told that being attracted to surgically mutilated, siliconized, infantilized and fetishized adolescents represents a normal, healthy sexuality for men; whereas my tendency to fall in love with a mind and worry about the shape/gender of the body later is a sick, sinful perversion.
No, it is not okay for a man to leave a woman who outgrows his stunted and atrophied little idea of what a woman should be. It also isn't okay to dump a spouse for getting wrinkles. Or gray hair. Or an appendectomy scar.
Let us all go visit this sister:
http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/prehistoricart/images/Venus-of-Willendorf-24000BC.jpg
Just gaze on her beauty. Contemplate that form. She's a contender for the title of oldest objet d'art on planet earth. One day, thousands of years ago, someone was so inspired by that form, it drove him to not only create a work of art, but to create the entire concept of art.
That's a holy thing.
@Sungmanitu, AMEN sister! So sorry you are struggling with your child, but appreciate you taking the time to whack us on the head.
Sungmanitu, I love you and all the comments you make here! Thanks for articulating what I've tried to come over here and write for the past few hours. My thoughts are with your daughter. Been there and done that. Now, I live for me and if being in a relationship means settling, I'll pass. Women's Colony!
I think this place helps me more than my current antidepressant. Thank you.
so very much to read and think about here.
Why does a marriage work when another one fails?
Why can two people meet, walk a lifetime together, have childern, or not, have ups and downs and still like each other?
And why do some people get married, have children, or not and suffer alone, maybe loving each other but not liking one another.
It is an age old question.
In my mind there are many forms of abuse, some you can see, like a black eye, some you can not see, they are so deep they reside in the pit of the soul. Which is more cruel? Killing someone slowing with words or beating them with a fist? I have always thought that they are both one as cruel as the other.
Why do some people live well together and others use each other as their own personal whipping board.
You see it over and over and over.
I don't know if I got lucky or I have a low tolerance for abuse.
I would leave or have left if I felt mistreated in my marriage.
There are two people and sometimes more involved.
Are you better to stay or better to leave?
I have left relationships where I was better to leave but it was "friendships" not my marriage.
I could go on and on- but I have always felt that maybe someone is being more cruel by staying than leaving.
“Mrs. G is trying to figure out the motivation, courage and, more so, emotions of such a woman packing up her bags and heading to the Colony…” (or anywhere really)
The courage would have to be phenomenal. Her emotions would be of limited use. In her current state they only serve to keep her paralyzed, trapped in a dismal relationship. The fear, sadness, self-loathing have all but consumed her, in much the same way she consumed--in one sitting--the last three pieces of banana bread brought by a well-meaning friend to cheer her up. Deep down inside, she is angry to discover that she finds herself agreeing with his cruel assessments of her state of being. Why on earth would anyone ever love her? She cannot believe in an external source of love, because she never learned to love herself.
She keeps to herself in quiet spaces, reading books, watching movies, all the while imagining herself as the strong, healthy, caring person she had hoped to become. Maybe there is a place where she could belong, where others would recognize that tiny speck of a perfect soul somewhere inside her. But could she ever find this place?
One day, instead of ignoring the less-than-flattering image staring back at her in the mirror, she pauses to look behind her own eyes, seeking a glimmer of that other-woman she imagines, hopes, is hidden in one of the chambers of her heart. And yes, she really is there. Then, only then, can she find the courage and after that, the motivation comes easily.
I have been such a person.
No, absolutely not. I'm one of the ones that "let herself go", never lost the pregnancy weight and it kept piling on. When the weight gain, low self- esteem and all other consequences start affecting the other parts of your marriage like sex and intimacy it's time for one of those hard talks. Hopefully, you had several before the talk of leaving came.
Marriage is a partnership, you should expect that there will be times when one or the other partner needs to be strong. No one can loose the weight for you, but the husband can be a LOT of help in keeping you on track.
However, if he's a douche than it's better if he leaves because you certainly won't get any support an positive reinforcement from him. in that case, good riddance!